OBX Connection Home > OBX Connection Forum > Rodanthe Erosion Crisis
Rodanthe Erosion Crisis

Rodanthe Erosion Crisis






Click to follow link...


OBX Connection Sponsored Links




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




AI comes to Rodanthe






RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Rehash of old data, nothing new. Somewhat disturbing is Dave Hallack, who I like and respect, taking a bunch of credit for the buy out of the two Beacon Road homes (it was to mitigate a continually nagging $ NPRO counselor) while (not reported) completely dropping the ball on one former cottage NRPO owner, less than a klick south, who had a stand by remediation contract in place, and not contacting the owner until the next morning (the cottage fell around 0100), allowing much of the debris to move south instead of his retained team being on site almost immediately to begin clean up.

There are a lot of moving parts, I get that, but lots of room for improvement as Rodanthe (and other Hatteras/east coast towns) attempts to manage this slo mo schitshow.




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




I don't like to make a comparison on coastal erosion relating to barrier islands as compared to Ocean front erosion. They are certainly two different animals. I'm not sure that there's a way to halt the movement of barriers islands, whereas coastal erosion is often times checked with riparian structures. (Jetties, groins seawalls, etc.) But North Carolina is opposed to hardened structures on their coastal areas, so we'll never know. Pumping sand on a recurring basis is all they've got.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




I don't like to make a comparison on coastal erosion relating to barrier islands as compared to Ocean front erosion. They are certainly two different animals. I'm not sure that there's a way to halt the movement of barriers islands, whereas coastal erosion is often times checked with riparian structures. (Jetties, groins seawalls, etc.) But North Carolina is opposed to hardened structures on their coastal areas, so we'll never know. Pumping sand on a recurring basis is all they've got.

Squid Pro Quo


They are different animals but with respect to erosion/land sinking/rising rates and shore wave velocity.

Hardened structures simply will not work in NC given the, as we all know, the insanely wicked wave velocity (hell, we've all seen a massive septic tank rolled down the beach like bobber)...a sandy beach harbor in the Chesapeake Bay or New England town or the GoM, yes, but to the significant detriment of your neighbors, if they don't have same. I've seen them all (and built hard structures) up front and personal for over half a century.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Rodanthe is a mess for sure, and there just does not seem to be a good solution. I know the county is trying to raise money for renourishment, which is like a bandaid on a huge gushing wound. I agree that groins and sea walls are not a solution. What I wish I understood better is why some portions of the beach are eroding and others are not. For instance the northern part of Avon is pretty stable, but the southern part has had significant erosion problems in the last 7-8 years. The east facing beach in Buxton is steadily receding, but the south side of the point is not receding.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Rodanthe is a mess for sure, and there just does not seem to be a good solution. I know the county is trying to raise money for renourishment, which is like a bandaid on a huge gushing wound. I agree that groins and sea walls are not a solution. What I wish I understood better is why some portions of the beach are eroding and others are not. For instance the northern part of Avon is pretty stable, but the southern part has had significant erosion problems in the last 7-8 years. The east facing beach in Buxton is steadily receding, but the south side of the point is not receding.

John Bull


Yeah, re nourishment moola is, as you prob know, generated by pulling 2% (or one third) of the 6% occ tax...which means we have like $1.25 (old adam sandler joke) in the kitty smiley ....larger areas like KDH have the scale to fund the $10m a mile need.

As to why some areas and not others...that's the zillion dollar question as there is no rhyme or reason...years ago the cottages just to the north of the pier looked ominously close to "diving in"...fast forward a couple years, tons of beach. For northern Rodanthe there was an unprecedented erosion rate in like 6/8 weeks of 2024 - in some areas 30 FEET of dune gone. One visiting NRPO went on line demanding to know who flattened/trampled her dunes - she initially refused to accept that her dune wasn't flattened, but instead the build up on the eastern (ocean facing) side of that dune was washed away...heck, she even put up that orange security fencing at the dune edge to keep people "out" - of course, she didn't want to hear about the consequences of 100' of that stuff washing into the Atlantic.

Believe it or not (I mean we are talking about sometimes obtuse Dare County - you guys watching the housing development fiasco over in Wancheese?) re-nourishment plans do work because they are a program, not a one and done (which is pushing a rope), and have a recurring re-nourishment built into said plan.

But, yeah, it's all going away...just faster in some places than others.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




The issue is a lesson in greed and NC politics at its worse.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Rodanthe is a mess for sure, and there just does not seem to be a good solution. I know the county is trying to raise money for renourishment, which is like a bandaid on a huge gushing wound. I agree that groins and sea walls are not a solution. What I wish I understood better is why some portions of the beach are eroding and others are not. For instance the northern part of Avon is pretty stable, but the southern part has had significant erosion problems in the last 7-8 years. The east facing beach in Buxton is steadily receding, but the south side of the point is not receding.

John Bull


Yeah, re nourishment moola is, as you prob know, generated by pulling 2% (or one third) of the 6% occ tax...which means we have like $1.25 (old adam sandler joke) in the kitty smiley ....larger areas like KDH have the scale to fund the $10m a mile need.

As to why some areas and not others...that's the zillion dollar question as there is no rhyme or reason...years ago the cottages just to the north of the pier looked ominously close to "diving in"...fast forward a couple years, tons of beach. For northern Rodanthe there was an unprecedented erosion rate in like 6/8 weeks of 2024 - in some areas 30 FEET of dune gone. One visiting NRPO went on line demanding to know who flattened/trampled her dunes - she initially refused to accept that her dune wasn't flattened, but instead the

Believe it or not (I mean we are talking about sometimes obtuse Dare County - you guys watching the housing development fiasco over in Wancheese?) re-nourishment plans do work because they are a program, not a one and done (which is pushing a rope), and have a recurring re-nourishment built into said plan.

OceanBlue


We've been keeping up with the Wanchese news. What a pickle the county have gotten themselves into.

In regards to the beach erosion in both Rodanthe and South Avon near the Food Lion, so many stories have come our way about their take on the erosion from local business people we have hired to do this and that the last two years. I'm guessing whomever figures it out will win the Nobel prize in ecology or whatever. Same thing in Holden Beach. The end of the beach is washing away and the other is becoming wider.

Ramp 55 in Hatteras much more narrow compared to 2015. I cannot believe the change in such a short amount of time. But then, the inlet beach there is so wide.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Looking at a navigation chart of the coast, both Buxton and Rodanthe have underwater ridges a couple of miles offshore. Perhaps those ridges are encouraging scour, causing the shoreline sand to slide eastward (downhill) to fill in what is being scoured away at the base of the ridges. But, I'm no expert by any means, just a casual observation. The new bridge was a clue that the powers that be knew that trying to keep up with the shoreline retreat in the washover flats area is a lost cause. The bridge is a 50 year remedy for the rest of the island to the south.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Wimble Shoals along Rodanthe isn't just a system of underwater sand dunes/ridges. The sandy bottom sits on ancient hard ground.

"Morphology , Geologic History and Dynamics of Wimble Shoals , Rodanthe , NC
ECU Author/Contributor"

Click to follow link...

"In many coastal studies , onshore processes of erosion and accretion have been correlated to the location of nearshore morphological features , such as ridges , shoals , and shore-oblique bars. These nearshore features are commonly used as sediment borrow sources for nearby beach nourishment projects. Wimble Shoals , offshore of Rodanthe , NC , is a major bathymetric feature that consists of five shore-oblique ridges and is adjacent to a perennial erosional hotspot area that has been the subject of a recent beach nourishment project. Although it is often reported that nearshore bathymetric features impact onshore dynamics , little is known about the nature and origin of these features , and in particular their evolution , morphology , and influence on the coast."

"Decadal- and century-scale bathymetric analyses showed that Wimble Shoals is migrating southward and has some control over the areas of accretion and erosion seen in the onshore environment. Wimble Shoals is composed of highstand systems tract and lowstand systems tract sands that overly a gently dipping Pleistocene surface."

___________

Somewhere online last year I saw a drawing of eastern NC as it looked 20,000 years ago. The sound was dry mainland, and all of the rivers in the eastern part of the state ended up draining into the ocean through the area that is now Ocracoke Inlet. As the last ice age ended 11,000 or 12,000 years ago the ocean level came up creating the sound and inlets came and went. The first European written report, in 1585 iirc, mentioned Ocracoke Inlet as the only inlet at that time.
I've often wondered why Ocracoke and Roanoke Islands don't migrate like the oceanfront Outer Banks - they are actual islands that were part of the main land mass and not just a sand bank. I'd also wondered why Ocracoke Inlet has stayed open and why it runs right next to the island. It's the ancient river channel scoured into the hard ground under all the shifting sand and not just a channel scoured out of soft sand.

And fwiw, ever wonder why there are freshwater aquifers under eastern NC that extends out under the sounds and allows 3 wells to pull water from 600' down in Ocracoke (there's water 10' down, but they use water from the bottom of the aquifer and then process it with reverse osmosis) and in KDH from the Yorktown aquifer? It was formed when the mainland extended far out into what is now the sound and the ocean.

One of these days I'm going to take a week and start looking into all of this. Or maybe I'll just go fishing.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




This is not what I was looking for, but interesting anyway in terms of where the water levels used to be and where the rivers used to go.

Frying Pan Shoals off Wilmington NC.

Click to follow link...

"March 19, 2024 by noaacoastsurvey
Possible Ancient River System Discovered off Wilmington, North Carolina"

"During the 2023 field season, NOAA Ship Ferdinand R. Hassler was tasked with surveying an area offshore of Wilmington, North Carolina, in the vicinity of Frying Pan Shoals"

"they discovered what is believed to be well-preserved ancient remnants of a paleochannel system that could give us a glimpse as to what our North Carolina coastline looked like approximately 20,000 years ago. The location of these newly discovered paleochannels indicates that they may have once been part of North Carolina’s historic Cape Fear River and likely were above sea level during the Last Glacial Maximum." (when sea levels were 400 feet lower)






RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




"A graphic showing the southwestern corner of the most prominent paleochannel shown at 4-meter resolution."

The sand we see above and below the water appears to all rest on ancient ground and waterways, and water is going to take the path of least resistance. In my mind it all begins to explain why inlets open and close and beaches come and go seemingly randomly - we are only seeing what is happening on the surface.




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Looking at a navigation chart of the coast, both Buxton and Rodanthe have underwater ridges a couple of miles offshore. Perhaps those ridges are encouraging scour, causing the shoreline sand to slide eastward (downhill) to fill in what is being scoured away at the base of the ridges. But, I'm no expert by any means, just a casual observation. The new bridge was a clue that the powers that be knew that trying to keep up with the shoreline retreat in the washover flats area is a lost cause. The bridge is a 50 year remedy for the rest of the island to the south.

Greg MD
Could be - then there's view that both Rodanthe and Buxton sorta kinda "stick out" into the Atlantic and mother ocean is just "sanding" them down. Net/net, I just think we all take a turn in the barrel

Ya know what's weird is that the jug was not going to be the jug...instead an elevated road way in the SAME location as old Rt12 (beginning and terminating at same locations) what a cluster that woulda been, but that was the plan. Then the head of the Dare NCDOT said nope, a few other back room convos prevailed around '15/'16 and boom, we had the jug and basnight finally wiggled/pulled through the wickets.

We've been keeping up with the Wanchese news. What a pickle the county have gotten themselves into.


I don't know the developer...I hear two sides as to his ethics/business practices (what else is new) so who knows. I do think the storm water issue is legit, even more so, the, what, 5 homes to a single septic field and the close proximity of builds. Affordable housing, as we all know is a huge issue here (and so many other spots). While I believe the markets solve all - asking a 5x multiple (he may have gone up even more) on his investment (yeah, he cleared the land....but, phht) is kinda obscene. Even more concerning is the whole eminent domain thing. Life on a sandbar smiley



RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




So, John, do you mean to tell me the sea level rose? Imagine that it's been happing for billions and billions of years...


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Not only did the sea level rise some 400', it looks like the old riverbeds are still down there under the sounds, the outer banks, and the ocean. They may mostly be covered in sand, but they are still wet and still affecting what we see on surface in terms of cut throughs, inlets opening and closing, and where the beach sand erodes and redeposits. Too complex for me.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Not only did the sea level rise some 400', it looks like the old riverbeds are still down there under the sounds, the outer banks, and the ocean. They may mostly be covered in sand, but they are still wet and still affecting what we see on surface in terms of cut throughs, inlets opening and closing, and where the beach sand erodes and redeposits. Too complex for me.

johnbt

Interesting. All three areas mentioned above for erosion problems (RWS, Avon and Buxton) all have the same underwater ridge formations at the same oblique angle to the beach and all within a mile or two of the shoreline. Twice might be a coincidence, but three times is a pattern.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Rodanthe is a mess for sure, and there just does not seem to be a good solution. I know the county is trying to raise money for renourishment, which is like a bandaid on a huge gushing wound. I agree that groins and sea walls are not a solution. What I wish I understood better is why some portions of the beach are eroding and others are not. For instance the northern part of Avon is pretty stable, but the southern part has had significant erosion problems in the last 7-8 years. The east facing beach in Buxton is steadily receding, but the south side of the point is not receding.

John Bull




For well over a decade, beginning in the early 80s, the hotspot for erosion on the northern Outer Banks was at the Sea Ranch motel. Poor Miss Sykes, who was the owner and had lost the original Sea Ranch in the Ash Wednesday storm, had just built the new large addition when the erosion set in. She spent much of her last years under the threat of losing the Sea Ranch once again. During that same period of time, one mile to the north the beach was experiencing accretion to the point that the stairs leading from the Tan-A-Rama deck to the beach were buried, and you could step directly from the deck to the beach. And I don’t think the Avalon Pier had that much to do with it. Go figure.

The dynamics of the point are different. In 1978 I shopped around for an oceanfront lot on HI. I had a local, Tim Midgett, for a realtor and I also did a lot of research. I learned that what you wrote was true and bought a lot in the Shoresurf subdivision between Frisco Pier and the airstrip and across the road from the Quarterdeck Restaurant.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Elon will fix this

MikeW


.


.




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




Probably so, EZ! He's a genius certifiably from what I have read about this man. I love it that he gives most of his money away and lives in a tiny little ranch home in Texas. He is totally not trying to keep up with the Jones' as they say. No greed at all and keeps it simple.


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




lives in a tiny little ranch home in Texas.

Bentmtn


You're kiddin' right? smiley Not taking anything away from the dude (was a Space X contractor early on - he's beyond wicked smart) - but his Austin compound is massive.




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




lives in a tiny little ranch home in Texas.

Bentmtn


You're kiddin' right? smiley Not taking anything away from the dude (was a Space X contractor early on - he's beyond wicked smart) - but his Austin compound is massive.

OceanBlue


Not kidding, however I may have been fooled by misinformation. You never know these days what is true and what isn't. The rumor is, is that he is buying a mansion in Texas, but he is denying that.




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




[ The rumor is, is that he is buying a mansion in Texas, but he is denying that.

Bentmtn


Misinformation...no way smiley Inspect what you expect, you strike me as way to smart to do anything other. Yes the realtor.com is his property...but so is the compound. Somewhat LDSish for me, but it's spectrum thing

Click to follow link...


RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis




[ The rumor is, is that he is buying a mansion in Texas, but he is denying that.

Bentmtn


Misinformation...no way smiley Inspect what you expect, you strike me as way to smart to do anything other. Yes the realtor.com is his property...but so is the compound. Somewhat LDSish for me, but it's spectrum thing

Click to follow link...

OceanBlue



Hahaha! Thanks, OB. But.....he doesn't live in the mansion or mansions. It's nice he provides well for his children and their mamas!




RE: Rodanthe Erosion Crisis






Hahaha! Thanks, OB. But.....he doesn't live in the mansion or mansions. It's nice he provides well for his children and their mamas!

Bentmtn

Wow. You don't actually believe that do you? Wow, just wow. He has owned many properties and has a very nice private jet. He takes vacation on a $7000 a day yacht. He has the money, so there's nothing wrong with that. He comes from a wealthy family.

As for his kids, he's disowned one of them (Vivian) saying he's dead because he transitioned to a girl. Not exactly parent of the year...


OBX Connection Sponsored Links