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4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge

RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge





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RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




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RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge






Why would they charge a toll for the Mid Currituck bridge and not the Wright bridge? Be careful what you ask for.

tc08105


Because they have to pay for the bridge. Since its inception, that has always been bonding out the majority of the costs, to be repaid by tolls.

MCB is a much longer, less evacuation useful, and much more expensive bridge than the WMB, Basnight, or the Jug Handle, and it doesn't produce a cost savings that can partially fund it (as was the case with both the Basnight and the Jug Handle).


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge






Why would they charge a toll for the Mid Currituck bridge and not the Wright bridge? Be careful what you ask for.

tc08105


Because they have to pay for the bridge. Since its inception, that has always been bonding out the majority of the costs, to be repaid by tolls.

MCB is a much longer, less evacuation useful, and much more expensive bridge than the WMB, Basnight, or the Jug Handle, and it doesn't produce a cost savings that can partially fund it (as was the case with both the Basnight and the Jug Handle).

KDHBreeze


I get all that. I respect what you're saying. The numbers just aren't there.

Normally, I'd agree with what you said. When all is said and done, this white elephant will tip the scales at near a billion dollars. Twice the 2021 estimate. What with material increases and fuel costs (not to mention the unforeseen costs) , how do they expect to get enough toll income over 4 months a year to pay for it? Without putting a toll on the Wright Brothers Bridge to help defray the cost?


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I really don't see this bridge adding day trippers, especially with the toll. The Outer Banks isn't really a day trip destination for many people. If it was, we'd already see it in Kitty Hawk. It's a vacation destination, and will continue to be with or without the bridge.

As for adding for vacationers, that boat has sailed already. With or without this bridge, north of Duck has already changed and will continue to change. There's only so much land, so it's going to max out at some point. Local elected official don't seem interesting in stopping it, so it's going to happen or has already happened. You can't blame the bridge for that.

As a Outer Banks vacationer, I did north of Duck once. Won't do it again. Just not worth it when going south is so much easier and more peaceful. The bridge could change that, but I'm a south of the Bonner guy now, so I doubt it would change that.

The one worry I have is with the beach driving communities. I can see that road being extended north and that would completely change that area. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Money is usually the biggest driver though and there a bunch of land to develop. Take part in local elections and grill the candidates about development. That's the best way to stop it.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge






Why would they charge a toll for the Mid Currituck bridge and not the Wright bridge? Be careful what you ask for.

tc08105


Because they have to pay for the bridge. Since its inception, that has always been bonding out the majority of the costs, to be repaid by tolls.

MCB is a much longer, less evacuation useful, and much more expensive bridge than the WMB, Basnight, or the Jug Handle, and it doesn't produce a cost savings that can partially fund it (as was the case with both the Basnight and the Jug Handle).

KDHBreeze


I get all that. I respect what you're saying. The numbers just aren't there.

Normally, I'd agree with what you said. When all is said and done, this white elephant will tip the scales at near a billion dollars. Twice the 2021 estimate. What with material increases and fuel costs (not to mention the unforeseen costs) , how do they expect to get enough toll income over 4 months a year to pay for it? Without putting a toll on the Wright Brothers Bridge to help defray the cost?

tc08105


Oh, I'm not arguing the numbers are there. That the numbers aren't there is why a half century in, it hasn't been built. To be built at all, it would have to revenue generate through tolls, and it has to have proof of that as a viable revenue stream in order to bond the portion they need to bond.

Most of the people who think they could get enough toll to cover the bond are here, or on FB groups chatting it up. From multiple practical aspects, it's hindered. It has existed as a NCDOT vanity proposal just for visibility and so the state can show other more viable and worthy projects by comparison, and to that extent, they've done fairly well for such an impoverished state.

Upkeep on WMB has been minimal in cost, so adding a toll there to fund the upkeep of it would'nt help much in terms of budget and would make MCB look like an even worse investment.

What people ignore entirely is that the conservative 2000s estimates still being used aren't just gross underestimations at this point, they were at the old numbers dramatically more expensive than other projects. It would be a huge undertaking, which is why it hasn't been undertaken.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




"Upkeep on WMB has been minimal in cost, so adding a toll there to fund the upkeep of it wouldn't help much in terms of budget and would make MCB look like an even worse investment."

Agreed. You make sense.

However, who says a governmental body equally makes sense. They could form an "Authority". The Outer Banks Bridge Authority. An instant three bridge toll system to pay for the bridge "system".

Voila! Instant toll on Mid Currituck, Wright Bros. Bridge, and the Washington Baum Bridge. They may want to throw in the William B. Umstead Memorial Bridge.



RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




If anyone thinks that this bridge has anything to do with safety or evacuations, you are fooling yourself. We have 3-5 days to prepare for a hurricane and we usually order them in a timely fashion because better safe than sorry. We have learned from our errors in the past and the days of sitting evacuating traffic are practically over. Returning may be a problem, but that is basically just another changeover day with both Saturday and Sunday check in travelers coming all at once.

This is about money, more development and people wanting to cut time off their trips. This bridge will transform the north beaches like you can’t imagine. Day trippers will explode, there are some now, even in January and February. I’ve talked to them. The population will increase as you will be able to access Hampton Roads with ease. I mean who wouldn’t live there and commute to work if they had the means. Plenty of people in Currituck have done that for decades, I know plenty of folks who did. Anyone remember the Ford plant? Also, on the “mainland” side it will change. Most natives, long time locals and new residents don’t think it will be for the better either.

The Corolla beaches are wonderful. It’s crowded at times, but it’s enjoyable. Spending a little more travel time to protect it is smart. I have to make adjustments in my daily life because of travel time, we all do, but that’s ok. It’s worth it.



RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Build a ferry terminal in Corolla, and let it connect with both the terminals on Knotts Island and the one at the courthouse. That would add two more entry/exit points rather than one, and most of the evacuation traffic leaving Corolla would not merge on 158 or 168 with that coming from the Dare Beaches.

Ain’t that how they do it in Ocracoke.

If you don’t like a short relaxing ride on the ferry, then take a 3 hour stuck-in-Duck drive


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Do you realize how difficult and expensive it is to keep the Hatteras and Ocracoke ferry channels open? Not only that, frequently they aren't open and then you add in the difficulty finding staff to operate the ferries and it's a mess. Isn't the water west of Corolla sort of shallow to start with?


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Do you realize how difficult and expensive it is to keep the Hatteras and Ocracoke ferry channels open? Not only that, frequently they aren't open and then you add in the difficulty finding staff to operate the ferries and it's a mess. Isn't the water west of Corolla sort of shallow to start with?

johnbt




According to this article the Ferry Division’s budget is about 45 million a year.

Click to follow link...

Yes, I would imagine that the dredging is very expensive. And yes, Currituck Sound has a lot of shallow water, but so does the longer route of Ocracoke to Cedar Island. And only one channel would need to be dredged into Corolla that would service both routes.

The NC ferry system has seven routes and three of them serve Ocracoke Island. So I would imagine that a very large portion of that 45 million goes to service Ocracoke Island. How many people does Ocracoke Island accommodate even in peak summer, about 10,000? I have not crunched the numbers and compared the cost of a couple of ferry routes over the proposed new bridge. But by the time it’s all done it could cost a billion dollars to build the bridge, and then there is always a continuous maintenance cost.

Click to follow link...


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Average depth of Currituck Sound just 5 feet. Environmentalists wouldn't even let them dredge a path across years ago for passenger ferry.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Late to this but I think that the vacationers in Corolla will pay $25 each way. You don't rent a house that costs $10,000+ a week and cheap out on a $25 toll!! It's a drop in the bucket when paying that price for a week.

I'm in Duck and would likely pay that to cut time off my drive home. $25 for a car full of people to cut what could be an hour off? Yeah, we just won't stop at Starbucks or CFA on the way home, pack sandwiches and call it even.

Does anyone know will the toll be flexible - ie, different prices different times of the year? I don't often travel on peak travel days since it's our own place I travel at off days/times.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?

Beach Farmer


Do Philly and Camden residents get a break on the Ben Franklin? Walt Whitman?


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?

Beach Farmer


Do Philly and Camden residents get a break on the Ben Franklin? Walt Whitman?

tc08105


I really don't care what your little moral position is on it. I'm asking if anyone knows.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I had read (awhile back) that they were proposing that the bridge will be free for locals if you cross and return the same day.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?

Beach Farmer


Do Philly and Camden residents get a break on the Ben Franklin? Walt Whitman?

tc08105


I really don't care what your little moral position is on it. I'm asking if anyone knows.

Beach Farmer


People wonder why hardly anyone comes on here anymore.

Have a nice day.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?

Beach Farmer


Do Philly and Camden residents get a break on the Ben Franklin? Walt Whitman?

tc08105


Ha!
It only costs to LEAVE jersey. And believe me every time I shell out the $5 to get across the bridge I’m happy to do it just to get out. It’s free to get back in. ‘Cause who really wants to PAY to go to nj?




RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Delaware River Authority actually gives discounts for frequent crossers and also half price tolls for Seniors.



RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




I'm wondering if they are planning on giving a break to Corolla permanent residents on the toll?

Beach Farmer


Do Philly and Camden residents get a break on the Ben Franklin? Walt Whitman?

tc08105


I really don't care what your little moral position is on it. I'm asking if anyone knows.

Beach Farmer


People wonder why hardly anyone comes on here anymore.

Have a nice day.

tc08105


Maybe you should look at the thousands of views the posts on this board still get. Sorry if I don't want to get into a pissing match with you over the morality of bridge toll discounts for locals. Do you think that somehow people come here for that? I have no control over toll discounts and neither do you. Comparing the situation here to Philadelphia and Camden, two of the most corrupt sh!tholes on Earth is not a good analogy. ...So here we are in a pissing match anyway....BOOOoooooring.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




Average depth of Currituck Sound just 5 feet. Environmentalists wouldn't even let them dredge a path across years ago for passenger ferry.

xobx





You are right. Dredging in Currituck Sound is an old old issue.
As recently as 2018 the Currituck County commissioners were still trying. There is no solution here that will not upset a lot of people especially the environmentalists. The SELC will jump on anything outside of people getting around by kayak and sailboat.
I knew that my suggestion was not gonna happen; I was just throwing out ideas.

Click to follow link...

Click to follow link...

Click to follow link...

And it looks like the state is able to still dredge the Currituck Sound for the Knotts Island ferry.

Click to follow link...

Here is another idea that I know the people in Corova will hate. Take a look at the map and notice how close the east side of Knotts Island is to Corova. That would not be much of a bridge span at all. I know that a paved road from Corova to Corolla is out of the question, even though it was considered long ago. But thousands of people who visit the Outer Banks have 4WD.




RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




And the people of Knotts Island would not like it either. It is truly a remarkable place.

Click to follow link...


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




And the people of Knotts Island would not like it either. It is truly a remarkable place.

Click to follow link...

ezbuckwheat


My family has home on Knots Island that we just finished restoring. Great little place however it is not a vacation destination. There is one long causeway in and out of that little town. It would be a nightmare traffic scenario.


RE: 4th Circuit Court Rules on Mid-Currituck Bridge




To provide information only, and not wishing to get into the fray here, one major thing is presumed here.

If the MCB goes forward, bonding funding is predicated on MCB traffic exceeding the current traffic numbers for the WMB in a peak year for the toll to not exceed $25 per car.


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