Walkway question

RE: Walkway question




Better check your contraction Greggy before Squiddy calls you on spacing !


OBX Connection Sponsored Links




RE: Walkway question




So now you are the self imposed grammar police of the Forum in addition to resident expert ? Is that the best you got ?

izzymcgee


I can't help it because you're such a caustic bastard !
I've got better but I reserve that for posters I believe have an actual brain .



RE: Walkway question




If you're talking about BF, he was once more bad azz then you'll ever be. As a matter of fact, he still is.

Squid Pro Quo
You mean the same BF that whined like a little wimp when his vacation renters actually treated his rental AS IF IT WERE THEIR OWN HOME? You CANNOT possibly be serious. That's about as "bad azz" as ice melting in 90 degree weather in the sun. Laughing smiley


RE: Walkway question




More importantly... This would be simple to check. The walkway in question on Sand Rd in Hatteras is located on federal land. Check the waiver/permit/etc issued for the construction/repair of that walkway issued by the federal government. That's it.


RE: Walkway question




Although it is true that part of the walkway is on Federal Property, as the NPS owns and regulates all shoreline on Hatteras Island ( see Sand Rd. attachment), the issuing of permits for PRIVATELY funded beach access is the responsibility of Dave Hallac, superintendent for the Outer Banks Group. Seems it is his judgement call on the requirement to be ADA compliant based on whether the cost could be unduly burdensome for the applicants.


"How does cost factor into a public agency's decision in its transition plan concerning which existing facilities must comply with ADA and Section 504 pedestrian access requirements?

For existing facilities requiring accessibility improvements as scheduled in the transition plans, the public agency must provide accessibility improvements unless the cost of the upgrades is unduly burdensome. The test for being unduly burdensome is the proportion of the cost for accessibility improvements compared to the agency's overall budget, not simply the project cost. 28 CFR Part 35, App. A, discussion at §35.150, 4 – 7.

The decision that pedestrian access would be unduly burdensome must be made by the head of a public agency or that official's designee, accompanied by a written statement of the reasons for the decision. 28 CFR §35.150(a)(3). (9-12-06)"



www.fhwa.dot.gov/civilrig...


RE: Walkway question




Although it is true that part of the walkway is on Federal Property, as the NPS owns and regulates all shoreline on Hatteras Island ( see Sand Rd. attachment), the issuing of permits for PRIVATELY funded beach access is the responsibility of Dave Hallac, superintendent for the Outer Banks Group. Seems it is his judgement call on the requirement to be ADA compliant based on whether the cost could be unduly burdensome for the applicants.


"How does cost factor into a public agency's decision in its transition plan concerning which existing facilities must comply with ADA and Section 504 pedestrian access requirements?

For existing facilities requiring accessibility improvements as scheduled in the transition plans, the public agency must provide accessibility improvements unless the cost of the upgrades is unduly burdensome. The test for being unduly burdensome is the proportion of the cost for accessibility improvements compared to the agency's overall budget, not simply the project cost. 28 CFR Part 35, App. A, discussion at §35.150, 4 – 7.

The decision that pedestrian access would be unduly burdensome must be made by the head of a public agency or that official's designee, accompanied by a written statement of the reasons for the decision. 28 CFR §35.150(a)(3). (9-12-06)"

lowtide
That's fine. But do you have a permit from the Fed Gov to build a structure on government land? Local or state governments cannot make land use decisions for the Fed Gov.


RE: Walkway question






The decision that pedestrian access would be unduly burdensome must be made by the head of a public agency or that official's designee, accompanied by a written statement of the reasons for the decision. 28 CFR §35.150(a)(3). (9-12-06)"

lowtide
That's fine. But do you have a permit from the Fed Gov to build a structure on government land? Local or state governments cannot make land use decisions for the Fed Gov.

SandyPaws4


Further south if we "waited" for that kinda process to evolve we'd never get anything done. I'm not talking about a massive structure crossing over 12 or a huge sunset deck on the dunes....we're talking simple access to the beach for the folks (all of us) that are entitled to respectfully use and enjoy that beach. Folks taking action to provide that continued erosion/severe weather/et al has removed are doing the right thing.


RE: Walkway question




Although it is true that part of the walkway is on Federal Property, as the NPS owns and regulates all shoreline on Hatteras Island ( see Sand Rd. attachment), the issuing of permits for PRIVATELY funded beach access is the responsibility of Dave Hallac, superintendent for the Outer Banks Group. Seems it is his judgement call on the requirement to be ADA compliant based on whether the cost could be unduly burdensome for the applicants.


"How does cost factor into a public agency's decision in its transition plan concerning which existing facilities must comply with ADA and Section 504 pedestrian access requirements?

For existing facilities requiring accessibility improvements as scheduled in the transition plans, the public agency must provide accessibility improvements unless the cost of the upgrades is unduly burdensome. The test for being unduly burdensome is the proportion of the cost for accessibility improvements compared to the agency's overall budget, not simply the project cost. 28 CFR Part 35, App. A, discussion at §35.150, 4 – 7.

The decision that pedestrian access would be unduly burdensome must be made by the head of a public agency or that official's designee, accompanied by a written statement of the reasons for the decision. 28 CFR §35.150(a)(3). (9-12-06)"

lowtide
That's fine. But do you have a permit from the Fed Gov to build a structure on government land? Local or state governments cannot make land use decisions for the Fed Gov.

SandyPaws4


Yep. For my street's walkway. And I know the person on Sand Road got a permit for that walkway. The contractor/builder requires it. The issue that Sandman had was about shoddy repairs. That often is the result of a well meaning owner or renter repairing some of the frequent damage caused by storms or King Tides. As mentioned by others, contractors are limited in number and in high demand and response to small repairs is a low priority....the NPS is usually pretty reasonable about repairing walkways. I have no idea what your State or local government comment is in reference to. You seem argumentative and angry...please stay away from Hatteras Island as we all get along fairly well.....best for all if you stay on the tombolo.


RE: Walkway question




You seem argumentative and angry...please stay away from Hatteras Island as we all get along fairly well.....best for all if you stay on the tombolo.

lowtide
I'm not who you need to worry about. It's people (vacation renters) who will complain about inadequate ADA accommodation on a structure located on federal land that are going to be your problem. Just make sure you've covered all the bases and the Fed Gov has authorized the construction of your walkway on the portion that is located on federal land.


RE: Walkway question




You seem argumentative and angry...please stay away from Hatteras Island as we all get along fairly well.....best for all if you stay on the tombolo.

lowtide
I'm not who you need to worry about. It's people (vacation renters) who will complain about inadequate ADA accommodation on a structure located on federal land that are going to be your problem. Just make sure you've covered all the bases and the Fed Gov has authorized the construction of your walkway on the portion that is located on federal land.


RE: Walkway question




It's people (vacation renters) who will complain about inadequate ADA accommodation on a structure located on federal land that are going to be your problem. Just make sure you've covered all the bases and the Fed Gov has authorized the construction of your walkway on the portion that is located on federal land.

SandyPaws4


May be different up north, but I've never heard of anyone complaining of access so long as the home owner is fully transparent on "our" erosion/sever weather swings (meaning the entire east coast - and, of recent, the west coast) and that a beach access might be here today, but gone tomorrow.

I'm seeing, in the villages anyway, narrower and narrower "cuts" to the beach. we get way less wash through resulting is less RT12 road water.


RE: Walkway question




May be different up north, but I've never heard of anyone complaining of access so long as the home owner is fully transparent on "our" erosion/sever weather swings (meaning the entire east coast - and, of recent, the west coast) and that a beach access might be here today, but gone tomorrow.

OceanBlue
People file lawsuits for all kinds of reasons. Some are frivolous, example: Hovey. He wasted years and tens of thousands of dollars on a lawsuit he couldn't possibly ever win.

Regardless, here's more info on the issue of a beach access located on federal land:

Click to follow link...




RE: Walkway question




May be different up north, but I've never heard of anyone complaining of access so long as the home owner is fully transparent on "our" erosion/sever weather swings (meaning the entire east coast - and, of recent, the west coast) and that a beach access might be here today, but gone tomorrow.

OceanBlue
People file lawsuits for all kinds of reasons. Some are frivolous, example: Hovey. He wasted years and tens of thousands of dollars on a lawsuit he couldn't possibly ever win.

Regardless, here's more info on the issue of a beach access located on federal land:

Click to follow link...

SandyPaws4


Thanks, but I'm pretty well read in on the subject ;)


RE: Walkway question




You seem argumentative and angry...please stay away from Hatteras Island as we all get along fairly well.....best for all if you stay on the tombolo.

lowtide
I'm not who you need to worry about. It's people (vacation renters) who will complain about inadequate ADA accommodation on a structure located on federal land that are going to be your problem. Just make sure you've covered all the bases and the Fed Gov has authorized the construction of your walkway on the portion that is located on federal land.

SandyPaws4


We send all irrational, angry, not fit for human society (let alone the Outer Banks community), up to Duck and Southern Shores. Worth the trade off with the private beach access shenanigans.


RE: Walkway question




Well, a reasonably innocent question on my part certainly took a left turn. Thinking of the question I certaily should have considered the ADA implications. In my work career, crews I was in charge of literally built 100's of ADA ramps and sidewalks in PA & NY. While I know we are discussing a wooden walkway in NC , the ADA rules are federal. Did not consider those implications when all I really wanted to know was who was responsible, or approved a haljf baked repair to steps on the bottom of a beach access. Now then, thinking about it I see at least three scenario's-
1. I can see a how walkway from a private house that doesn't infringe onto federal land can pretty much do what they want.
2. I don't know how a "community walkway" open to the general public can avoid the ADA rules, regardless of where it exits.
3. A public walkway exiting or infringing onto federal land should have to comply with the ADA rules.
Given that the federal/state land begins at the high water mark which is a fairly open description, lets say that most of the public walkways probaly fall into the ADA baliwick.
Of/On the projects I was aligned with - all using public funds, the argument of cost was WAY, WAY down on the list of exceptions to be exonerated for compliance. Most of the ramps I have seen on the island could -(yes could ) be constructed to ADA spec's. The landscape on the shore is reasonably flat - except for the dune hump. Extending a ramp parallel to the shoreline instead of steps gets you in compliance. Cost - for sure. But at least your talking only about pressure treated lumber, fasteners, and labor. No concrete, steel, trees or major heavy equipment required.
Not my intention at all to cause any constrenation, or start a war on ADA. I can just see now however on how a small bit of shoddy construction can be a huge issue.



RE: Walkway question




I would be happy if you had ANY accommodations for beach access. Be happy with what is there.


RE: Walkway question




If the ADA rules were enforced the probable result would be to return to the old way of beach access - footpaths through the dunes. The result is a break in the dunes as foot traffic beats down vegetation and flattens down the pathway. The purpose of the wooden walkways over the dunes is to prevent this.




RE: Walkway question




Somehow the ADA stuff got all confusing in here. I admit I know nothing about it nor do I care because I am fortunately unaffected, but there are numerous .gov links out there that state clearly 1 accessible access per 1/2 mile of managed shoreline. Period. Money and what not aside, it looks like if pedestrian access is allowed and accesses are built then each 1/2 mile needs a single access that is compliant.

Regarding the altered walkway... so you can't get your cart down it now. That's unfortunate, but it happens. The town of Nags Head had to rebuild part of the walkway across from the house after a storm damaged it and in the process it was altered to eliminate some of its former functionality.


RE: Walkway question




Somehow the ADA stuff got all confusing in here. I admit I know nothing about it nor do I care because I am fortunately unaffected, but there are numerous .gov links out there that state clearly 1 accessible access per 1/2 mile of managed shoreline. Period. Money and what not aside, it looks like if pedestrian access is allowed and accesses are built then each 1/2 mile needs a single access that is compliant.

Regarding the altered walkway... so you can't get your cart down it now. That's unfortunate, but it happens. The town of Nags Head had to rebuild part of the walkway across from the house after a storm damaged it and in the process it was altered to eliminate some of its former functionality.

Mstaszew


Unfortunately for the OP, this whole ADA discussion wasn't intended as useful or fruitful discussion, nor to answer OP's question. Just a lot of grandstanding of the sort that is why many of the good people won't return.


RE: Walkway question




Well, a reasonably innocent question on my part certainly took a left turn. Thinking of the question I certaily should have considered the ADA implications. In my work career, crews I was in charge of literally built 100's of ADA ramps and sidewalks in PA & NY. While I know we are discussing a wooden walkway in NC , the ADA rules are federal. Did not consider those implications when all I really wanted to know was who was responsible, or approved a haljf baked repair to steps on the bottom of a beach access. Now then, thinking about it I see at least three scenario's-
1. I can see a how walkway from a private house that doesn't infringe onto federal land can pretty much do what they want.
2. I don't know how a "community walkway" open to the general public can avoid the ADA rules, regardless of where it exits.
3. A public walkway exiting or infringing onto federal land should have to comply with the ADA rules.
Given that the federal/state land begins at the high water mark which is a fairly open description, lets say that most of the public walkways probaly fall into the ADA baliwick.
Of/On the projects I was aligned with - all using public funds, the argument of cost was WAY, WAY down on the list of exceptions to be exonerated for compliance. Most of the ramps I have seen on the island could -(yes could ) be constructed to ADA spec's. The landscape on the shore is reasonably flat - except for the dune hump. Extending a ramp parallel to the shoreline instead of steps gets you in compliance. Cost - for sure. But at least your talking only about pressure treated lumber, fasteners, and labor. No concrete, steel, trees or major heavy equipment required.
Not my intention at all to cause any constrenation, or start a war on ADA. I can just see now however on how a small bit of shoddy construction can be a huge issue.



RE: Walkway question




Well, a reasonably innocent question on my part certainly took a left turn. Thinking of the question I certaily should have considered the ADA implications. In my work career, crews I was in charge of literally built 100's of ADA ramps and sidewalks in PA & NY. While I know we are discussing a wooden walkway in NC , the ADA rules are federal. Did not consider those implications when all I really wanted to know was who was responsible, or approved a haljf baked repair to steps on the bottom of a beach access. Now then, thinking about it I see at least three scenario's-
1. I can see a how walkway from a private house that doesn't infringe onto federal land can pretty much do what they want.
2. I don't know how a "community walkway" open to the general public can avoid the ADA rules, regardless of where it exits.
3. A public walkway exiting or infringing onto federal land should have to comply with the ADA rules.
Given that the federal/state land begins at the high water mark which is a fairly open description, lets say that most of the public walkways probaly fall into the ADA baliwick.
Of/On the projects I was aligned with - all using public funds, the argument of cost was WAY, WAY down on the list of exceptions to be exonerated for compliance. Most of the ramps I have seen on the island could -(yes could ) be constructed to ADA spec's. The landscape on the shore is reasonably flat - except for the dune hump. Extending a ramp parallel to the shoreline instead of steps gets you in compliance. Cost - for sure. But at least your talking only about pressure treated lumber, fasteners, and labor. No concrete, steel, trees or major heavy equipment required.
Not my intention at all to cause any constrenation, or start a war on ADA. I can just see now however on how a small bit of shoddy construction can be a huge issue.

sandman
Yep. You've pretty much nailed it. Any walkway constructed on Federal land (as is the case in this thread) has ADA implications along with Federal permitting requirements. But expect a lot of locals to balk at that. They think they can do whatever the hell they want, public (in this case, federal) or private property be damned.

We went through this with the Hovey lawsuit. Many locals on this forum insisted Hovey was correct. Well... that was a BIG NO. The NC State Court System (and this went all the way up to the NC Supreme Court) ruled AGAINST Hovey.


RE: Walkway question




Wait till his little buddy jumps in and starts using the C word again ! Could't contain yourself could you , Squiddy !!!

izzymcgee


"Little Buddy" ?? I like Squid but I'm 6ft 235LBS and I still got a good 5 minutes of hammer time left in the tank....so bring friends. (;

...and it's a little cowardly to make comments about someone who isn't even involved in the discussion. I guess you thought I wouldn't see it? ... since I didn't even reply to this thread till now?? I mean if you wanna run your mouth PM me otherwise just STFU.


RE: Walkway question




If you're talking about BF, he was once more bad azz then you'll ever be. As a matter of fact, he still is.

Squid Pro Quo
You mean the same BF that whined like a little wimp when his vacation renters actually treated his rental AS IF IT WERE THEIR OWN HOME? You CANNOT possibly be serious. That's about as "bad azz" as ice melting in 90 degree weather in the sun. Laughing smiley

SandyPaws4


Are you like spinning around in circles in your kitchen with another open bottle of wine repeating the same sh1t over and over again to yourself?? No one and I mean NOONE cares about what you are saying. You come on the board obsessively looking for someone to argue with and everyone is just looking at you like "WTF is wrong with this person". Seriously , you have zero self awareness. I can't even get offended by it... I actually feel bad for you. Don't you have anything else going on in your life that you can share instead of lurking around waiting for some topic to pop up that remotely resembles your obsession with your walkway? ...any family you can turn to for help?


RE: Walkway question




You seem paranoid Beachy boy , they have Meds for that now !!!


RE: Walkway question




You seem paranoid Beachy boy , they have Meds for that now !!!

izzymcgee



"Beachy Boy"??? ...are you naked and alone again Izzy? I mean I'm flattered and all but you have a collection of blow-up dolls for all that, I'm sure ...and this conversation was about Walkways.....Inappropriate!


OBX Connection Sponsored Links