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Hatteras Realty pricing

By: jdj1991
10/16/2019 12:36 PM

So I'm one of those folks that likes the search for the next beach house. I love keeping a spreadsheet sorted to show homes for the spring trip, for the fall trip, ocean front, sound front, by realty company, with a pool etc. I know...sick.

To that end, I make updates to pricing for some of my faves each year and wow Hatteras Realty...what have you got going on??? Many of their homes on my list have increased by $300 to $400 over last year. No worries for me....I've got loads of homes with other realty companies all over the place that I can make decisions with but right??? So I thought maybe Hatteras Realty had started with a pricing that includes taxes and pet fees etc. Nope - they are truly just higher now.

What's up???

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By: h8peta
10/16/2019 1:19 PM

We own a house on Hatteras Island that we rented out the past couple of years. We recently dropped our PM (not naming them here) for a number of reasons, but chief among them was their insistance on not raising rates. We know that all renters are different, but this past year we seemed to get nothing but people who seemed to think that they could treat our house any way they wanted. We got nowhere with our PM to get them to cover total repair costs for damages and loses. We really need a $300-$400 weekly increase to make it worth the pain we go through every fall restoring our house.
So yes, you are probably right, not all PM's are raising rates, but maybe they should! I'm sure this is not the case for everybody, but our house for one, was way underpriced by the PM.
Oh, BTW insurance costs are going up again on HI.

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By: Beachmark
10/16/2019 1:27 PM

So I'm one of those folks that likes the search for the next beach house. I love keeping a spreadsheet sorted to show homes for the spring trip, for the fall trip, ocean front, sound front, by realty company, with a pool etc. I know...sick.

To that end, I make updates to pricing for some of my faves each year and wow Hatteras Realty...what have you got going on??? Many of their homes on my list have increased by $300 to $400 over last year. No worries for me....I've got loads of homes with other realty companies all over the place that I can make decisions with but right??? So I thought maybe Hatteras Realty had started with a pricing that includes taxes and pet fees etc. Nope - they are truly just higher now.

What's up???

jdj1991
You may recall that Hatteras Realty was bought by Wyndham several years back. This year Wyndham Vacation Rentals in the US was bought by Vacasa Rentals; I am not sure that the sale is yet complete. So that ownership change might be a factor.... but just a guess.

And IIRC, Jessica is now working for Hatteras Realty and is going to get us all big discounts... so maybe the extra $$ are needed for that LOL

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By: jdj1991
10/16/2019 2:00 PM

So yes, you are probably right, not all PM's are raising rates, but maybe they should! I'm sure this is not the case for everybody, but our house for one, was way underpriced by the PM.

h8peta


Maybe they should but if they do - this girl is O U T! Too many other options out there....

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By: Laszlo
10/16/2019 2:12 PM

We own a house on Hatteras Island that we rented out the past couple of years. We recently dropped our PM (not naming them here) for a number of reasons, but chief among them was their insistance on not raising rates. We know that all renters are different, but this past year we seemed to get nothing but people who seemed to think that they could treat our house any way they wanted. We got nowhere with our PM to get them to cover total repair costs for damages and loses. We really need a $300-$400 weekly increase to make it worth the pain we go through every fall restoring our house.
So yes, you are probably right, not all PM's are raising rates, but maybe they should! I'm sure this is not the case for everybody, but our house for one, was way underpriced by the PM.
Oh, BTW insurance costs are going up again on HI.

h8peta


So every fall your spending $3000-$5000 to fix / replace things damaged by renters?

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By: h8peta
10/16/2019 2:43 PM

Nope, not spending that much. That's just the threshold we would look for to cover the pure hassle of it. Last tax year we came out just above breaking even for the year.

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By: robluc
10/16/2019 2:52 PM

Nope, not spending that much. That's just the threshold we would look for to cover the pure hassle of it. Last tax year we came out just above breaking even for the year.

h8peta
So you have tenants paying your yearly total cost of buying an ocean home and its still not enough. Piece of.. work there.

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By: jessicaboyd
10/16/2019 2:53 PM

You may recall that Hatteras Realty was bought by Wyndham several years back. This year Wyndham Vacation Rentals in the US was bought by Vacasa Rentals; I am not sure that the sale is yet complete. So that ownership change might be a factor.... but just a guess.

And IIRC, Jessica is now working for Hatteras Realty and is going to get us all big discounts... so maybe the extra $$ are needed for that LOL

Beachmark


Lol I wish I could! The sale was supposed to go through at the beginning of the month, but we were told there was a “hiccup.” It’s supposed to go through at some point this month. Not sure about the reason for the rate increase, though.

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By: h8peta
10/16/2019 3:07 PM

Sorry, didn't realize that I was supposed to be taking a loss to make renters happy.

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By: Brad Z
10/16/2019 4:20 PM

Nope, not spending that much. That's just the threshold we would look for to cover the pure hassle of it. Last tax year we came out just above breaking even for the year.

h8peta
So you have tenants paying your yearly total cost of buying an ocean home and its still not enough. Piece of.. work there.

robluc


I think some folks get the wrong impression about owning a vacation home. It's a business and it shouldn't be loosing money.

Personal use of the property is very limited...limited by tax law to a maximum of two weeks a yearregardless of whether it's in season, off season, used by the owner or used by anyone else who isn't paying market rate to stay there.

When we stay at our house for a week in the summer, we're essentially paying for the week just like anyone else, because of the opportunity cost associated with loosing a week of rent.

My rates go up between 2-5% every year because my expenses go up every year. Electricity gets more expensive. Insurance costs go up. Labor rates go up, etc. I have to bring in more than I spend, because I have 10 years worth of capital expenses that aren't going to pay for themselves (periodic replacement of decking, siding, roof, concrete, etc.)

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By: old greybeard
10/16/2019 6:13 PM

I thought owners on this site always said only large beachfront homes break even or make money? The market will decide. Rates get too high we’ll rent thru vrbo. Or buy a camper and stay at a fed/state park for $35 a night.
Be careful what you wish for.

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By: nicki
10/16/2019 7:03 PM

So the owners dont set their rates? I assumed they did, because there have been so many posts over the years about the price of a house increasing for the next season, and often substantially. When those questions arise one of the first responses is always "Maybe there is a new owner."

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

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By: Brad Z
10/16/2019 7:15 PM

So the owners dont set their rates? I assumed they did, because there have been so many posts over the years about the price of a house increasing for the next season, and often substantially. When those questions arise one of the first responses is always "Maybe there is a new owner."

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


They do, although some PMs make recommendations and may drop you if your rates are out of line. The majority of owners go with PM recommendations, and don't really do their own comparative market analysis.

It's also worth mentioning that it's really hard to define just breaking even. Expenses vary widely from year to year. A surprise hot tub replacement? $6,000. New air conditioning unit? $7,000. These houses generate income 14-24 weeks a year, but require 52 weeks of coastal maintenance.

As far as a substantial increase in rent from a change in ownership, usually new owners are less likely to immediately raise rates right away. Usually a substantial rate increase is either due to the house being below market for some time, or the house booking unusually quick the prior year.

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By: nicki
10/16/2019 8:03 PM

^^ Thanks Brad, that was what I was thinking, but when the other poster mentioned that their PM refused to allow an increase I was stymied.

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By: jdj1991
10/16/2019 8:37 PM

I’ve been renting through Hatteras Realty for years and I don’t know that I ever recall an increase this large. Not sure what prompted it when I’m not seeing that same increase from other property management companies.

They’re obviously still competitive as there are plenty of properties already reserved for 2020. I was just curious why they would show such an increase when others have not. I know renters and owners have different perspectives and I respect that but was just curious...

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By: Mikec
10/17/2019 1:36 PM

As I sit right now there is a house that has most of the lights on since the renters arrived Sunday afternoon. There is a second house that has most of the exterior lights on, again, since Sunday. A casual word to the folks in first house got not response.

In July or August my friends had a $900+ electric bill.

Some renters are great but some .....

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By: Mstaszew
10/17/2019 1:55 PM

As I sit right now there is a house that has most of the lights on since the renters arrived Sunday afternoon. There is a second house that has most of the exterior lights on, again, since Sunday. A casual word to the folks in first house got not response.

In July or August my friends had a $900+ electric bill.

Some renters are great but some .....

Mikec


Light bulbs are almost free to use nowadays assuming they are LED. A $900 bill is that special class of idiot who leaves windows and doors open while the AC is running non-stop. There should be door sensors attached to the thermostat that automatically kills the AC/Heat if door/window is left open for a short period of time.

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By: Alexy
10/17/2019 2:26 PM

We own a house on Hatteras Island that we rented out the past couple of years. We recently dropped our PM (not naming them here) for a number of reasons, but chief among them was their insistance on not raising rates. We know that all renters are different, but this past year we seemed to get nothing but people who seemed to think that they could treat our house any way they wanted. We got nowhere with our PM to get them to cover total repair costs for damages and loses. We really need a $300-$400 weekly increase to make it worth the pain we go through every fall restoring our house.
So yes, you are probably right, not all PM's are raising rates, but maybe they should! I'm sure this is not the case for everybody, but our house for one, was way underpriced by the PM.
Oh, BTW insurance costs are going up again on HI.

h8peta


So every fall your spending $3000-$5000 to fix / replace things damaged by renters?

Laszlo


I will say that we spend $2000-3000 a year to repair or replace things. A grill or a hot tub cover is good for about 3 years at the most down here. Every set of sheets is replaced x2 for every bed in the house each year ( not counting those ruined during the rental season) Dishes get broken chipped stolen. Kitchenware gets lost. Outdoor electrical outlets and switches corrode rapidly.

Appliances take a brutal beating down here. Every week the fridge gets opened for hours while a renter unpacks it then leaves then opened when the cleaner cleans it then opened for another hour when the new renter checks in and loads it up again in 4 hours. The ice gets totally dumped as well and the freezer and ice maker than have to play catch up again.( if you check in and the temp is high give it a few hours before you complain to the management company)

Dishwashers can be run breakfast lunch and dinner depending on your renters.

Paint on walls gets scuffed up badly with suitcases being moved in and out every week.

Carpets get professionally cleaned 3 times during the season just to keep them presentable.
None of it is cheap and honestly there is a huge amount of work that goes into keeping renting and managing a vacation home that most people never see at all.
Typically in a 2 week stay I will spend anywhere from 4-6 days of my vacation doing or waiting for work to be done on our home.
Just normal wear and tear beats up most homes.

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By: smlobx
10/17/2019 7:35 PM

....

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


You have no idea how true that statement can be...
Anyone want to guess what this will cost us?



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By: robluc
10/17/2019 7:51 PM

....

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


You have no idea how true that statement can be...
Anyone want to guess what this will cost us?

smlobx
Wow!!! The renter put in a skylight?

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By: obxmini
10/17/2019 9:08 PM

....

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


You have no idea how true that statement can be...
Anyone want to guess what this will cost us?

smlobx


I feel for you, smlobx. I'm sorry that some don't seem to get the reality of owning a home that goes through this kind of thing more often than most of us have any idea.

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By: judyk
10/17/2019 9:14 PM

Wow! I’m sorry smlobx. Is that renter damage, or storm damage?

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By: Aliphatic
10/17/2019 9:27 PM

....

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


You have no idea how true that statement can be...
Anyone want to guess what this will cost us?

smlobx


If you are upset with the time and money that go into maintenance costs, why wouldn't you just sell the place and invest the proceeds into a more stable investment vehicle?

Even if you just broke even, you wouldn't have to worry about the continued costs and could then invest your repair money into a more profitable endeavor.

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By: Grim_Smoker
10/18/2019 1:02 AM

....

If an owner has something serious like water damage, a roof repair, etc., and there is no chance of even recovering a bit of that by rate increases, it sounds like the risk is greater than the reward.

nicki


You have no idea how true that statement can be...
Anyone want to guess what this will cost us?

smlobx


If you are upset with the time and money that go into maintenance costs, why wouldn't you just sell the place and invest the proceeds into a more stable investment vehicle?

Even if you just broke even, you wouldn't have to worry about the continued costs and could then invest your repair money into a more profitable endeavor.

Aliphatic


You might be missing the point. Most of the owners don't rent to make a major profit, as most dont actually make that much profit. Most of them do it for YOU. They want YOU to be able to come down here and enjoy this place. I don't own a home here, yet, but did maintenance for a PM. Even I am upset at what I had to do for these home owners. It's ridiculous. I only know of a couple of homes that were bought by new owners stupid enough to think it would be a great income investment. Hell, I met (and have stayed in touch with) a couple of owners who have actually lost money most years. But they're wealthy enough to keep it afloat, and they just want people to be able to enjoy this slice like the rest of us.

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By: SteveWolf
10/18/2019 3:39 AM

... Nope - they are truly just higher now. What's up???

jdj1991


Demand is greater than supply. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Until demand equals supply prices will go up. If demand equals supply prices will stabilize.

If supply is greater than demand prices will go down.

It would be an interesting Masters or PhD thesis to correlate the type of rental with the age of the renter, marking that as the population ages and saved wealth turns into retirement spending. I've never seen September and October beaches so crowded. Just count the bald heads.

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